 FREE BOOKS! Posted by Caren Crane Jan 8 2012, 1:01 am by Caren Crane Yeah, I though that would get your attention. It certainly gets mine! As much as I love to read, free books make me feel like a crack addict in line at the methadone clinic. Must. Have. Books! As I have mentioned (ad nauseum), I got a Kindle for my birthday last May. As soon as I did, my son came over and loaded a number of books onto it for me as a gift. Free books!
That was enough to get me solidly hooked on the splendors of reading on the Kindle. But then I found out that Amazon offers all kinds of free books(!) for the Kindle. I was hooked for LIFE, people. But then my husband got a Kindle of his own and he started on a free book frenzy, too. The circumstances of this brought vividly to life that there is a Light Side and a Dark Side of all this electronic book availability. Let’s peek behind the curtain, shall we?
The Light Side
Many authors and publishers also offer free books, short stories, or other content, to readers. Although they do not get compensated directly, these “teasers” often hook readers on a new author they may not otherwise have discovered. In those cases, the free book resulted in sales of other books so the author, at last, is compensated for their work. Win-win!
The Dark Side
So where do you fall in this debate? Is it okay to download books as long as you are not knowingly robbing the author of royalties? Can you support a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy like my husband’s? And have you ever found a new Great Author by downloading a free book first? Do tell! TweetPosted in Amazon, book piracy, Caren Crane, free books, free download, kindle, piracy Comments57 thoughts on “FREE BOOKS!” |
  
12 Bandita Days of Christmas
Anna Campbell
Anna Sugden
Annie West
Aunty Cindy explains it all for you
Australian Authors
Bandita Booty
Bandit Booty
Beth Andrews
Caren Crane
Cassondra's blogs
Cassondra Murray
Christie Kelley
Christine Wells
Christmas
coming attractions
contest winner
debut
Donna MacMeans
guest blogger
historical romance
Holidays
interviews
Jeanne Adams
Joan Kayse
Jo Beverley
Jo Robertson
Kate Carlisle
Launch Party
movies
paranormal romance
prizes
prize winner
Romance
romance bandits
Susan Sey
Suzanne Ferrell
Suzanne Welsh
T-shirts
Tawny Weber
travel
Trish Milburn
Uncategorized
writer's life
writing life 
|
|
 |
||
Is he coming to my place
Have Fun
Helen
Helen, another day with you! He must be enjoying the hot weather!
Helen, you are becoming a second mom to the GR! Not that he ever gets home to see his first…
I hope you both enjoy the sunshine and hot weather today!
Oh dear. Like you, Caren, I LOVE free books! But also like you, Caren, piracy just chaps my behind ;p It makes me completely angry when people knowingly steal from authors and deprive them of a livelihood.
I’m not sure I can entirely support a don’t ask-don’t tell about books–it seems to me that in general, there are TONS of avenues to get free books legitimately, including all sorts of generous contests, and that if it seems too good like that, it usually means you’re stealing.
And it also makes me mad that so many people who would never consider themselves criminals wouldn’t think twice about such outright theft.
Grrrrr!
Fedora, it’s an interesting conundrum, isn’t it? I guess we are all so conditioned to seeing, say, movies on cable TV or getting books free from the library or seeing art in a public museum that many people – I’m afraid my husband is one – see no need to pay the artists for their work. It’s kind of baffling to me, but I know it’s a very real phenom!
By the way, I’ll confess that I used the DADT policy when my sister loaned me Season 2 of Nurse Jackie on DVD…which she bought from some pirater online! I was very uncomfortable with how she got it, but I did enjoy watching it. Of course, I still have a little residual guilt.
“Chaps my behind” GIGGLE, GIGGLE!
Oh, and yes, I have sometimes found great new-to-me authors through a freebie they’ve offered or their publisher’s offered. Part of the reason my TBR is so unbelievably enormous!
Have fun with the GR, Helen!
Fedora, did you see you won Julia Phillips Smith’s prize? Congratulations!
Fedora, isn’t that the Best Thing Ever? I have discovered so many wonderful authors because I picked up a book at conference or won a contest or simply downloaded a free limited-time book or back title from them. It’s really a great deal for us readers and definitely gets me to try things I otherwise wouldn’t!
i think that’s the best thing about free or discounted books. You have a chance to find a new author. I’m always looking for a debut author hoping she or he will be one of my new “favorites.”
I feel the same way, Jo. I love to get excited about a new author – just like I did about you when your books came out! I already knew you were an awesome person, but I really love your books! That kind of excitement is hard to come by these days, so the teaser downloads are like gateway drugs for those of us hungry for new authors!
Caren
I have jsut got home from a wonderful Romance Reader lunch had a great time but and full and tired LOL so the GR will be keeping himself busy and I am sure he will find some Tim Tams in the cupboard.
This is one of the topics we were talking about today at lunch I have an e reader now as well (Sony) and love it and yes I often get free books from kindle and Smashwords if I like the sound of them and am always happy to purchase a book especially by a new to me author if they are listed at resonable prices. One of the problems we have here in Australia is that they don’t allow us to purchse some of the books that I really want for instance Christina Brook’s Mad for the Earl (I am dying to read this one) but I can’t get it as an e book it is available at many plces for US$7-99 but as soon as I log in it is not available to me another Anne Gracie’s new on Bride by Mistake e book US$7-99 not available to me but I can purchase it for A$16-99 as an e book. I don’t go and get pirated copies from those sites I only use Amazon, B&N, Smashwords, Kobo etc and yet it takes a while for us to be able to get them. I did fianlly get Kate’s E Special one YAY from Amazon.
For me I am very happy to pay and thik we should but when publishers stop us from getting books that we really want to read I want to know why? LOL.
Have Fun
Helen
Helen, it must be horrible! I know I’ve been really frustrated by authors whose books come out first in the UK market and we can’t get them for almost a year afterward. It makes me crazy, because one of those authors is my dear friend Deb Marlowe!! I wonder if they’ll ever get those markets streamlined??
I know Amazon is working really hard on that now, Helen. They’ve opened to the UK, Germany, France, and just recently Spain.”
I think the big issue is the currency exchange rate and the VAT, which I believe — someone correct me if I’m wrong — has to do with the import/export tax.
Are you able to purchase from the Amazon UK store? The site is http://amazon.uk.com. If you are, Christina’s books is 7.19 pounds (I just checked.).
Good look. I know it is frustrating, but I think the distributors are working on the problem.
Caren, this, as you can imagine, is an extremely sore point with me. It’s theft, pure and simple, and the people who download pirated books are thieves.
Exactly. May their hard drives become corrupted without backup and their books infested with worms
I totally agree as well Anna and Fedora
Helen
Anna, even though I’m As Yet Unpublished, I see how this hurts my published author friends. What’s interesting is that people who purport to be avid fans do this. I know it’s Hard Economic Times these days, but I would hope people who love a writer’s work would want them to be able to eat and keep the lights on!
For me a free book also means a clear conscience, one free from any kind of guilt. I have downloaded free classics knowing I can.
Mary, don’t you love the free classics? I feel so smart reading the autobiography of Benjamin Franklin!
well done Helen …. did he hide under the chair when we had the thunder and lightning lol
Caren…. I agree with you and love free books but only when they are given from the publisher or author free…. I was at the lunch with Helen and we all agreed that why should we have to pay a lot more for some e books because we live in Australia…. at the moment our $ is the same value as the US$
Barb, I’ve always been aghast at the book prices Australians, in particular, have to pay. I figured it was probably something to do with the cost of shipping to Australia. But it seems like, even with fuel costs, the shipping couldn’t possibly be that much more with the supposedly “more efficient” shipping systems now? I am clueless about those things, but it does seem like they must hope that since you guys are now conditioned to pay more, publishers wouldn’t be too eager to pass along any savings!
If I lived in Australia, I would be sorely tempted by any FREE BOOKS, no matter what the source!
I think many people believe published authors are making a ton of money on their books – what’s the harm of stealing a couple quarters from a rich author? Just wanted to say that many authors (me!) are not making a ton of money for what essentially is a year’s worth of effort. Plus as future contracts are based on past sales performance, pirated versions of my books could also mean no contracts for future books – it’s a double whammy. Curses to the pirates!
Donna, that is one of my very favorite misconceptions about published authors. Even my very educated reader friends, who ought to know better, believe that anyone who is a published author, must be raking in the money. Har-de-har-har!
That’s part of what mystifies me about my husband’s laissez-faire attitude – he knows how little most authors make! I honestly understand that most people wouldn’t have a clue about how a simple download affects authors, as you said. But anyone who knows better really should be more conscientious, IMO.
Now – a tangent
I read a blog yesterday by Tess Gerritsen who authorized a free download of a 15 pages short story that was combined with some teaser chapters. This is free copy. Do you know she got complaints! One person said the value wasn’t worth it – it was free! Another complained the story wasn’t long enough, the characters weren’t fully developed, not enough character arc. It was a short story! Hard to do all that in fiveteen pages. Crazy.
I have to LOL at this, Donna. We were just discussing this on the indie loop. Some authors drop their prices to FREE just to reward their faithful readers or to entice new readers. And people RETURN them. Why would you return something that’s FREE??!!
I just don’t get that kind of thinking.
Donna and Jo, this also makes me scratch my head. I’ve seen people post truly scathing reviews on books they downloaded for really specious reasons, like: their Amazon order never arrived on their Kindle; they thought they were ordering a hard copy book and didn’t realize it was a download (which happened to my teenaged daughter, but she didn’t post a nasty book review about it
); or, one of my favorites, the person read the book in its original language of publication (like Swedish or Japanese) and they thought the English translator did a really poor job. What in the world do any of those things have to do with the story? ?
I like to think if people knew how review “scores” can affect author’s future contracts, they would not post them. I’m not sure, though. Sometimes people just really want to speak their piece!
No I pretty much stick to reputable dealer such as amazon or Barnes & Noble when downloading to my kindle or nook. I want to payfor the right to read the wonderful books that you all write. I know it must be hard work to write those books and hard work must be rewarded:)
Gail, I feel just the same. I asked my husband whether he felt badly that his favorite authors weren’t benefiting from his fandom since he didn’t purchase their books. No, apparently not. I was greatly disappointed in him. As stated in my post, this is a real hot-button issue around here. I try to respect the detente we currently have, but since I chose to blog about it, I’m kind of getting riled up again.
Congrats on the GR Helen, have fun with him.
I do down load free books but only the ones at Amazon that are free. I have also found a lot of good authors this way. I only do the legal ones. I have also loaned one book to a friend that I bought but it was one that Amazon let you loan. I have enough books to keep me reading without having to still them.
Virgina, I recently had the same thought. I have downloaded so many classics free from Amazon, that I always have something new (to me) to read. I have trouble keeping up with my dear friends’ releases. Why in the world would I need to go hunting up books to download illegally? If I really need to read something (like for my book club) that I can’t afford on the Kindle, I can always hit the library! Even if a hard copy or Kindle copy isn’t available, they almost always have the audio book ready to check out!
If you subscribe to Pixal of Ink they will send you and email every afternoon letting you know what books are free on Kindle from Amazon and also discounted books. Even have some Nook books on the email. I have found a lot of good books this way.
I love my kindle. I originally started with a sony ereader but found that there aren’t nearly any books that are ‘free’ and it seemed as if books were never discounted when amazon or barnes and noble discounted prices, so I got a kindle and will never look back! In many ways it has been good (at least for my pocketbook) because where I was once buying every new historical romance released each month and still looking for things to read, I now am only buying 2-3 new publisher ebooks and the rest are freebies, or self-published deeply discounted books from authors who offered freebies to get me hooked. And I check daily for updates on discounted books because every once and while there will be some publisher offering a special on a certain author or theme.
Wendy, I love, love, love (did I mention LOVE???) my Kindle!
I have two of them and I use one for my daughter who edits my manuscripts (she lives 35 minutes from me) because I can download them as documents and she can make notes of the problems she sees with the book. She loves editing my books this way because she can take the kindle with her when she has to pick up kids from school, go to their games. Much better than working on the computer or with pen and paper.
It’s great for writers too!
Wendy P, isn’t the Kindle amazing in its offerings? I’ve been stunned by the low prices of many Kindle books. I’ve also found some great new authors who hooked me, like you’ve been hooked, with free initial downloads of titles. The face of publishing is changing very rapidly and many authors whose works haven’t found homes with prints publishers are trying out the indie-publishing route. There is a lot of great stuff to be had free or very cheap!
Well, girls, I have got a couple of blogs where my stories and a book is all there for people to read. However I do know a site where you can download books for free. It’s Bibliotastic.com and it’s where my book ‘Graveyard Shift’ is published. It’s all legal and you can download one or all of them by authors who are trying to make it in the big world of publishing and have never been recognised for their passion in life… and this is one of the many places where they can get their work read by anyone who has a kindle, nook or any type of e-reader.
However, downloading a book that you’re supposed to pay for is just like downloading a pirated movie off the net without paying for it… it’s stealing and you’re cheating the rightful people out of money they’ve earnt. If you can’t pull the money out of your bank account and pay for it legally… shame on you.
Mozette, isn’t it wonderful to have all those outlets where you can let people access your work? I think if people are not looking to profit from a work, but simply to get it read or to build a fan base, these sites are amazing! But as you said, if you’re supposed to pay for it and know it and choose not to…whole ‘nuther thing!
Nope, I won’t do the pirated books either and I won’t do the movies. Personally I work hard for every dollar I make and I would be more than ticked if someone took 7.99 out of my paycheck for no reason other than they wanted it.
I do love the freebies and the .99 books at Amazon. You can even have Amazon send you an e-mail for daily discounted books, they are usually .99 but may be as much as 2.99, no, I don’t get them all because they are varied genre and some just don’t ring my bell but it is nice to have a choice.
I have found some new to me authors through the free books and the discounted ones. I will take a chance for 3.00 but not for 8.00. My only problem with My Kindle is I can’t get the share for free books, I have an old Kindle and it doesn’t have that option.
Dianna, I didn’t realize there were differences like that with the older generation Kindles. I think mine is a second or third generation. It’s one that has ads instead of a literary screensaver. I like the ads, though, because they are sometimes for downloads for $1 or something similar. I have read a number of books I wouldn’t have otherwise because it was only $1. Definitely worth the risk. I’m with you, $7.99 is a lot of money these days if I’m taking my chances!
It could be I just haven;t figured it out Caren, I think mine is second generation without the ads. I haved searched the site and can;t find an update and I do have Prime so I should be able to get the free reads. I will keep searching, I just assumed it was the age of my Kindle.
Interesting and very timely topic, Caren. I think what most readers don’t realize is that in the traditional publishing model writers receive the small slice of the pie as far as compensation for their hard work is concerned. For someone to pirate an author’s book is just wrong, in my opinion.
On the other hand, for someone like your hausband (or many other people, for that matter), the opportunity to read a borrowed book from a friend is okay (as long as someone initially actually PAID for the book).
I say this because Reader A buys a book and LOVES it. She lends it to Reader B for free. Reader B ADORES this new writer she’s discovered and will likely purchase other books by this same author. Win-win.
What I really hate it websites (and there are PLENTY of them) who deliberately pirate authors’ works and re-sell them for a discounted price or free. They’re flat out stealing in my opinion.
I deliberately don’t look for such sites because it just “burns my biscuits” LOL, love that phrase. And in this instance, ignorance is bliss.
If someone truly could not afford to buy my book (it’s only $2.99) and desperately wanted it, I’d give it FREE to her!
Jo, I’m with you on that. I think it’s the knowledge of what’s going on that makes the difference. There are probably people who don’t know they are buying something that was pirated. I can’t blame the consumer, in that case, but only the seller.
In my husband’s case, I think his friend honestly did buy the books, but I can’t be certain and my husband isn’t certain, either. I’m not comfortable with that.
Ah, Helen, you said the magic words TIM TAMS !! He can find tim tams across miles of desert and fathoms of oceans. No worries!
This is SUCH a sore spot with me, Caren. It is part of the slippery slope of e-publishing and the electronic age. And unfortunately there is an entire generation of people out there who think they deserve EVERYTHING in life free. Never having had to work for a living and always having Mommy and Daddy there to take care of them, they look at the word “work” and sniff in disdain. They don’t value work period, so why should they value the hard work of an author.
Writing a book is one of the hardest things anyone can do. And if the author has decided to do this as a living and wants to be paid for their work then anyone who acquires said work without paying for it is a thief. Period. No exceptions. A carpenter is a craftsman, but if I hire him to repair something or build something for me I have to pay for it. I can’t just say “Oh, that’s so pretty it should be free.” RATIONALIZATION, folks. Stealing is stealing. Just because you can’t see the blood, sweat, tears and pieces of an author’s soul that went into creating a book doesn’t mean it isn’t there and doesn’t mean it has no value. If you wouldn’t steal a hardcover or paperback book then what makes it okay to steal an e-book. Unfortunately, there is a caveat to books being e-pubbed – no physical book, to many people, means no physical value and no physical crime. Technology has outrun the law and unfortunately it has outrun morality. We will have to wait a bit for it all to catch up!
And I have only had my Kindle a week now, so I haven’t downloaded tons of books, but the ones I have I have really enjoyed. And yes, the new authors I downloaded at 99 cents have been good so I have no issue paying more for their next books. BUT, those downloads came from recommendations of people whose opinion I can count on.
Louisa, you hit it right on the head: it’s a slippery slope. What starts out as a relatively harmless “borrowing” can easily morph into something else, whether it’s a conscious decision or not.
Honestly, one reason this is such a point of contention with the DH is because of monetary issues. As you noted, we are very used to using technology to get any and every sort of entertainment we want, almost instantly. I think part of it is the advent of things like YouTube which will allow you to watch the music videos you could only watch 20 years ago if you were a paid cable subscriber. Now, just Google it and there it is!
So, when a book comes out that we really, really want to read, we’re thrilled when we can download it from Amazon or B&N or Smashwords or wherever. If some broke soul wants to read it and there is a 30-person-deep wait list at the library, I completely understand the temptation of a free or deeply-discounted download, even if it’s from a less-than-reputable source. I’m not condoning it in any way, but I seriously understand it.
We have been trained (not just the kids, either) that we can have whatever we want, whenever we want it. How else do you explain why so many people who earn enough to cover all their basic expenses are swimming in credit card debt? We have been sold the idea that “every body has it” and so should we. I think it’s driven people who would never steal physical property (as you said) to steal electronic property and seriously not consider it as stealing.
It is a many-shaded issue. Hopefully, as you noted, law will catch up with technological advances. The trouble is, those whose livelihoods are made on pirating are always working on the Next Big Steal. It will be really interesting to see what develops in years to come on both sides of the issue!
I don’t think people should be able to “share” books – just like music – unless it’s within the same household or account. For example, if I buy a song off of itunes, my daughters who live in the same household and are on the same account have access to it. They should as if I bought a CD, I can pass it to them to listen to it. I think books and ebooks should operate the same – limited – way.
MissMolly, I know that before I bought my Kindle, a friend loaned me her Kindle so I could read a book she had. I have no idea if she could have “loaned” it to me over the Kindle network if I had had one at the time, but it was great to borrow hers to read the book. It also convinced me I needed one of my own.
I didn’t feel odd about that loan, I suppose because I was reading it on the device it was intended for? I’m not sure about that. My husband says my rules concerning this are vague and variable and I think that’s fair. We decided his are, too.
Really, I think it’s tough – outside of downright piracy – to decide what is “fair use”.
I feel like it’s fine to burn a CD when I bought the album from iTunes, for instance. But burning a copy for a friend is another matter. Then again, if I only listen to it on my iTunes at my PC or on my iPod and I burn a CD that I end up never listening to, is it okay to give that CD to my friend? I’m torn!
Hey Caren! I’m with you on the smokin’ burned biscuit side of things. Knowing that the composer, lyricist or author might never write again becuase he/she can’t make a living at what they do keeps me buying rather than pirating. I go to the library a LOT, sometimes, I read 3 chapters and have to take the book back because it’s overdue (I’m so bad about that!). I’ll often buy it because I know it’s good. Then donate it. But I can’t stomach pirating it. Not music, not books. :>
But that’s me!
Jeanne, I had to laugh. I am such a “feed the starving artists” person that I have, more than once, donated money to poor little bands who are making music I love and offering it free online. Those guys deserve to eat and have gas money for their tour van, you know?
It’s especially heartbreaking to hear about exceptional artists who are not profiting from their work and are in dire straits now, like the old blues musicians who were never treated nor paid fairly and who are now, many times, homeless or disabled with no care. It’s horrible that this happens to people who create works that entertain countless thousands, but it’s a common tale. So, yes, I want to buy as often as I can.
I confessed above, though, that I have been a (second-hand) consumer of pirated TV content. I don’t think the fact that I didn’t buy it from the pirater absolves me. I am just as culpable as the purchaser, because I indirectly added to the market for such products. I think Louisa summed it up best as “a slippery slope”.
I’ve found a number of new authors I’ve enjoyed when they’ve offered a freebie or a $0.99 special. But I wouldn’t get near a copy if I knew the book had been pirated. Would someone who expects to be paid for working like it if he didn’t get paid because a pirate decided he or she didn’t have to?
Eilis, I’m glad you’ve found some new authors through free or extra-cheap offers. It’s a great feeling, isn’t it?
Yeah, I’m not sure how someone gets to a point where they feel okay with making a living selling something they stole from someone else, but that’s what the pirates do. If they steal a book, then sell it for $1.99 when the publisher and outlets are selling it for $7.99 – or even if they BOUGHT it full price and are reselling it, after duplicating it, at bargain prices, they are taking money from the authors. I don’t know how a person could sleep at night who does that for a living!
Given my TBR pile and ebook list, I have no need to pirate anything. The only time I have considered downloading pirated books is for my mother. Last year I gave her a Kindle for Mother’s Day and then found out that there are no books available for her to read in the language of her choice. Yes, if I could find any legitimate sources for ebooks for her, that’d be great. Since I couldn’t, I was open to illegitimate sources. As of right now, she uses the Kindle to read Reader’s Digest and play word games. I feel like it was a waste of money.
I’ve decided that if I ever had to resort to pirated ebooks, I’ll send $3 to the author.
Inifinteh, I think that is the very essence of the “slippery slope”. It’s a Catch-22: you want to buy content and none is available legitimately, yet you don’t want to buy illegal content. There is no way to win! I think your solution is a good work-around, actually. You can’t feel good about buying illegal content, but essentially the pirates in question are fulfilling an unmet need in the legitimate marketplace. So, snag the illegal content and try to legitimately pay the author. That’s about the best solution there is, at this point.
Sadly, publishers are slow as molasses. It takes years, even in large foreign-language markets like Germany, for books to be translated and published there. It seems they could get to market quicker with electronic content, but apparently they are not there yet. For lower-demand markets, it could take decades! I think I’d be right there with you, girl.
Caren, I love reading on the iPad, which keeps so many books tucked neatly out if sight! I own some books in both paper and electronic versions so I can carry them easily when I travel and so I can read them by candlelight if we ever find ourselves without power for days on end, as after Hurricane Hugo.
I have no problem downloading free books that are in the public domain. I’m currently trying to pick a version of
Sherlock Holmes for iPad. Those works and the authors’ income from them were duly protected for a lengthy span of time, and copyright is not in perpetuity.
However, I do not download books or music that are still under copyright for free except as authorized by the rights holders. This is stealing income from the creators of the works. We have driven this home with the boy as well, or hope we have.
I discovered mystery author Dana Stabenow because she gave away the first book in each of her two series. The Kate Shugak, which I hear has been optioned for a movie, was a bit dark for my taste, but I loved the Liam Campbell and bought the other three in the series, doubtless the aim of the freebie offer.
I check the freebie page on iBooks from time to time, feeling fairly confident these are authorized freebies since Apple, with its deep pockets and US headquarters would be an easy target if they broke the law on this.
Nancy, I think it’s great you guys have taken pains to ensure your son knows about things like copyrights and how artists are paid. We’ve done a good job, I think, with our kids though it seemed to stick better with the last two than with that first one!
I’m glad you found a great new mystery author through her free downloads. I have not deeply explored free “new” books, but have trended more toward classics. I have downloaded some free books from guests we have had here in the Lair and those have been wonderful, every one of them!
I know Louisa said she pretty much only downloads freebies from authors who have been highly recommended. I’ll admit that the only new-to-me current authors I have downloaded free stuff from (so far) have been recommended through their guest appearances here or have been highly recommended by a friend. I trust my people more than random reviewers any day!
Caren, this is one of the reasons I decided to stop trying to get published. I recently had a fifteen year career destroyed by internet piracy. I’m not anxious to go through that again.
EC, that is terrible! It’s horrible to feel all your work is vulnerable and exposed, out there for anyone to nab. I’m so sorry you experienced that and certainly don’ t blame you for taking your toys and going home!
Hey ladies if you subscribe to Pixal of Ink they will send you an email every afternoon letting you know what free books Amazon has to offer and also some nook books. Also discounted book too.