 A Question of Morality_cropped.jpg) Posted by Donna MacMeans Feb 4 2012, 1:55 am A friend recently sent some beautiful pictures of Regency dresses. Take a look – aren’t these lovely? The one on the left is from 1805. The white wedding dress on the left is from 1804. However I look at these low necklines and I wonder how those ladies managed not to fall out of the dress? Did they not lift their arms? How did they manage those little hops in so many country dances? It’s like a wardrobe malfunction just waiting to happen. My friend and Regency romance author, Susan Gee Heino, who is also a talented seamtress assures me that, By the end of the nineteenth century, showing one’s ankles was not quite as shocking, especially as more and more women took to riding a bicycle (though that activity was still frowned upon). Of course, any ankles flashed at that time in the course of a game of lawn tennis or a ride on a bicycle were still well covered by opaque stockings. Naked legs and ankles in public was simply not done. Somewhere along the middle of the nineteenth century, women were allowed to publicly enjoy “swimming” though it would be difficult to imagine anyone actually being able to do more than stand in the combination of flesh concealing skirts and leggings that constituted a swimming costume. By the end of the century, that changed as well. One can see bare legs and arms, though the women were often hidden by “bathing machines” – big boxes on wheels that were pulled into the water so the bathers could dip in the water in private (obviously, as per this french postcard, there Fashions made drastic changes in the twentieth century and questions of morality weren’t far behind. Flappers from the 1920s were looked down upon, though I’m not sure if it was due to their bobbed hair or short skirts. Most likely it was the result of their independent attitudes, but their unique fashions helped push along the discussion of immoral versus moral attire. Hemlines on skirts continually rose throughout the twentieth century. I recall the days of the miniskirt and hot pants. Interestingly enough, in those years, wearing thin barely-there stockings on one’s legs was de rigueur. Not wearing stockings, or nylons, was scandalous. While Janet Jackson’s famous 2004 Superbowl wardrobe malfunction brought numerous cries as to the country’s declining morality, I have to wonder if that’s so very different from the occasional “slippage” experienced by those Regency ladies. It’s worth noting that the huge $500,000 fine levied against CBS for airing the malfunction was set aside by courts this past November 2011.
Can’t wait to see what happens tomorrow night In the spirit of what is old is new again, thought I’d add this image of a 4th century mosiac in what must be a precursor of a bikini. The image doesn’t show that she’s wearing a crown and carrying a symbol of athletic prowness. So what about you? Any thoughts of what was once considered immoral and now is accepted? Any expectations about the Superbowl tomorrow night? I’ll send a copy of Redeeming the Rogue to someone leaving a comment. Oh – and by the way – I think my bandita booty prize post from the taverns & pubs post was up for maybe ten minutes last night
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I was watching the Sag Awards last weekend and Dick Van Dyke was there to give an award to Mary Tyler Moore and he said each show could only contain one scene in which she wore those capri pants that she made famous. Some didn’t like that the capris were tight and others weren’t used to see TV housewives in pants.
Yay Jane – You won the always scandalous GR, known to flaunt his necked legs at every opportunity!
How funny about the Dick Van Dyke show. I remember those capris. Isn’t it amazing that those were scandalous while a dress was not? I remember that even as fashionable hemlines rose in high school – we were not allowed to wear pants. Does that make any sense? I remember it didn’t to us at the time.
I remember those capri pants, Jane. One of my very first gifts from my husband was a blue pair with matching boat-necked top. I guess he had NO problem with how tight they were LOL.
Jo, I’m LOL about Dr. Big’s “gift” – to whom was it a gift, you or him? Hahah! Love that!
Jane, congrats on teh rooster!
Fascinating, Donna! It’s interesting to see how times change with the fashion and vice versa! Ack! Bare ankle!!!
Better watch the ankles on the GR, Jane!
Fedora – I know! I had to laugh when Susan mentioned the scandal of seeing one’s ankle.
Weird that ankles were “sexier” and more scandalous than breasts. I guess because more people breast fed back then (making breasts more utilitarian than decorative, I guess!) And now, it’s just the opposite. Who cares about ankles, but let a nipple show….$500,000 fine!
They say what’s old is new again. I actually saw a short,Short pair of hot pants and go-go boots on a young girl that looked to be no more than 12 years old and she had every male around old and young with their tongues hanging out. As a mother of a daughter it took everything I had not to run over there with a jacket and ask does your mother know you dress like this? But,she probably left her home in decent clothes only to change later. My grandma who raised me would not only spank me all the way home but then spank me when I got home for embarasing in public. Tomorrow night I will be either camped out waiting for the lastest installment of “Downton Abbey” or watching the Nora Roberts marathon on the Lifetime channel.
Gail, I’m certainly enjoying “Downtown Abby.” My men don’t get why I’m not enthralled by the Super Bowl. Hmmmm.
Gail, I know what you mean! I had a pair of raggedy shorts that I loved and my mother threatened to “tan my hide” if I wore them out of the house. :> And I’ve seen some of the kids at my kids school and thought that very thing…”Does your mother know you’re wearing that, that way?” Then again, having met a couple of the mothers….poor kids. Grins.
Jo, I love football, but don’t have “a dog in this fight” as all my teams lost in earlier rounds.
Gail – We took my family out to a fancy restaurant at the mall last week in celebration of my daughter’s birthday. When we left, I saw some young high school girls wearing short cutoffs (remember it was January – not short weather in Ohio) with stiletto heels! I asked my son’s girlfriend what was up with that? No guys were hanging around them…yet – but the attire was so inappropriate for a shopping mall in winter that I’m sure that was the intent of the get-up. My son’s girlfriend said they probably changed into those clothes at the mall. SIgh.
I forgot Downton Abbey would be on tomorrow night. I may have to sneak upstairs and watch it in my office. I haven’t much interest in the game – except for the commercials.
Heheheheh, the commercials ARE the best part for me too, Donna!
A lot of the commercials are out already!!
Donna, I can’t wait for the commercials. There’s a branding guru that says they’ll be longer and better this year. :> (As in 60 second spots and 30 second spots rather than 15 and 30.) :> Should be fun!
As Cait said, some are out already. The David Beckham underwear one? OMGosh!!
I’ve seen the empire strikes back as barked by dogs and some hints about some others. I saw on the news that many commercials are being released early so they’ll get more bang for their buck.
I have often wondered about the ladies during the Regency period & their heaving bosoms. I would be terrified all the time in just exposing myself. I read a book a while ago & the ladies in France, around about the same time period, would dampen their gowns so they clung to their bodies. The precursor to the wet T-shirt?
Mary – Those regency ladies could be a wild bunch! The Victorians were much more restrictive about moral behavior – but their clothing with corseting and bustles and whatnot was much more suggestive. The corseting, though, would make it difficult to fall out of their low cut dresses.
Donna
A great post and yes I have often wondered how the kept themselves in those dresses LOL I agree that fashions often come back maybe a little different but pretty much the same in the 60′s stilleto heals were all the rage then they changed to big chunky wedge type heels and now the stiletos are back in. The 60′s bought us the mini skirt and hot pants and remember withces britches the long undies with lace I am sure they may have been a bit like undies from the regency time (that is if they wore them at all) mini skirts and short shorts are all the rage again, I don’t think I could go back to wearing all that clothing they used to wear and not being able to wear long pants and 3/4 pants they are my comfort zone LOL
Have Fun
Helen
Helen – I agree! I live in pants and shorts, capris aren’t really flattering for me – I haven’t Mary Tyler Moore’s dancer’s legs
. I remember when mini skirts were the rage in the 60s, one would wear a body suit underneath – like a thick textured unitard. They were a pain to get into. But once on – no one was getting them off. Guess that’s why they fell out of favor 
Hahahah! Probably so, Donna! You crack me up.
Just last year, I went out to an Epilepsy Symposium on a stinking hot day with Mum. And seeing how hot it was, I wore a mini-skirt with a nice singlet top and my sneakers/joggers so I didn’t roast. Dad picked me up from outside my unit complex and on the way into the city – by bus – Mum told me that he had exclaimed: “My God, she’s look at what she’s wearing! It’s immoral! Our daughter is in a mini-skirt!” Mum had defended me and said it was going to be a boiler of a day… and you know she had told me to stop flashing the people across the isle of the bus… which I wasn’t, my knees happen to be a little apart, but that was it. Once, we arrived to the ampitheatre, Mum said that it seems that the older a person becomes, the more that what their children wears shocks them. All I could do was smile; as I agree with her.
You see, I have noticed this new style of skirt being around where the front of it is very, very short and the back is long… kind of like a mullet-skirt. It looks dreadful and I’d never wear one. However it seems that every teenager is wearing one lately and it makes them look cheap.
So, what I find shocking and now isn’t so much to anyone else right now. I’m thankfully still into full-length skirts… and good classic styles.
LOL Mozette – I remember getting sent home from work once because my skirt was too short. Of course, I was wearing a full body suit – tights and top – underneath. You couldn’t get more covered up than me, but all they saw was the short skirt.
I think you’re right – the older one gets, the more critical one becomes about the way the young dress.
Right now we live in a world where anything goes it seems. I can’t really say I agree with what some wear these days but I guess they can ware what they want and show everything. I am older so its not something I would do, but who knows what I would do if I was young is this day in time. I know when I was in school you couldn’t ever wear pants. I always thought that was really stupid.
Virginia – Yeah, that’s the way it was when I was in high school as well. The principal would measure the distance from the floor to the hemline if he thought the girl’s skirt was too short. I forget the magic number of inches it could be. But you weren’t allowed to wear pants – even dress pants. Crazy. I suspect it had more to do with women crossing into “men’s” territory than anything.
When I was young I lived in the country and going to school entailed walking out of the “holler” to the main road to catch the school bus. Not to mention standing by the side of that road waiting on the school bus. Pants were not allowed in any shape or form and it was no picnic in the winter when we actually had real snowfalls. I have several pictures of me wading snow with my coat dragging through it. The go go boots and later the vinyl boots were not warm! There weren’t waterproof either.
The last day of my senior year we were allowed to wear jeans to school for the senior picnic. I still haven’t figured out how those jeans were more scandalous than the mini skirts I wore every other day of the year.
I didn’t wear a lot of pants because I am not in proportion and it wasn’t so easy to get pants for “tall”, even if you could find them they cost way more so I wore dresses for years because I don’t like to wear pants too short. High waters were what my mother called them.
To be honest I don’t understand fashion anyway. See through blouses was the craze for a while and that just wasn’t pretty at all. Daisy Duke shorts, really? Like I want to see your cheeks?
Hi Dianna!
I didn’t live in the country, but I did have to stand out in the cold waiting for the bus. Looking back, the ban on no-pants was ridiculous. I think what they were trying to ban is – young girls doing things “Man-ish”. You know – once they start wearing pants, they might decide to seek man jobs like – engineer or policeman – you know something other than nurse, teacher or secretary. And how immoral is that!
How times have changed – there was a fuss just recently, in the town where we used to live, when a headteacher (a female!) banned skirts and dresses from the local high school on the grounds that they weren’t appropriate! People complained long and loud about that and she had to change the rule.
OMGosh! Anna, that’s so funny! I would probably agree with her given some of the stuff I’ve seen. The poor male teachers, really.
Our local parochial school still makes the girls wear the plaid uniform skirts. The minute they’re out the door they slip on jeans underneath, or sweats or leggins or something, especially in the cold months. Kinda defeats the purpose, right? And those skirts are SHORT. They don’t even make them long, according to my friends whose kids go there.
What’s up with that? :>
LOL – Perhaps they are made by the same folks that make those schoolgirl adult costumes – talk about short!!!!
Great post, Donna, and what lovely dresses.
When I started in business, women weren’t allowed to wear trousers and men with beards weren’t allowed to be salesmen! Then again, women in business were frowned on until we sorted them out!
The one that always makes me laugh is the way married couples were always portrayed as having separate single beds in TV shows and movies. A far cry from the some of the shows I’ve seen recently! Especially some of the French and Italian crime dramas where pretty much anything was shown and fairly regularly!
As for the Superbowl – I’m not a Pats fan, but can’t stand the Giants (Redskins diehard here), so will have to go against the grain and cheer for Tom Brady *ugh*
LOL Anna – I remember all those twin beds. What did they think would happen if they showed a “true” marital bed? Makes no sense at all.
Hahah! I remember the MTMoore twin beds from reruns. That never made any sense to me. What adult-sized adult can sleep comfortably in a twin? Eeek! I’ve done it, will probably do it again when visiting somewhere, but for every night?
Seriously NOT!
Fashion adds so much interest to people watching! I had a very wealthy and worldly friend correct me once when I commented on a young girl’s ragged jeans. “Ignore the clothes,” she said. “Check the timepiece, her purse, her shoes. That ratty looking teen is loaded.” Sure enough, when she crossed over to the parking lot, she drove away in a Jag. Eye-opening!
I think it’s funny that women were once rolled in covered wagons to the edge of the sea in order to swim unobserved (and still mostly covered) and now you may as well skip the suit and run about in colorful panties and bra.
Colorful panties and bra? Try nothing at all
I’m heading to Mexico in a week. From experience I know that many, many, many of the sun-bathers will be topless. It took a bit for this one-piece lady to get used to their concept of one-piece
. Still, I suppose if I had spent all the money some of those women obviously did on their boobs – I would want to show them off as well 
SNORK!! …spent on their boobs….SNORK!!!
Donna, you’re in rare form today!
Looking from here, being sued just because someone show a little breast seems ridicilous. If someone pulled similar stunt here, there might be some comments, but if somebody tried to sue a tv company for it, they would be pretty much laughed out of court.
http://chickensintheroad.com/dailyfarm/
Minna – The thing that bothered me was that all the uproar was over Janet Jackson’s breast and not the fact that the show included Justin Timberlake RIPPING HER CLOTHES OFF. Seemed like a blantant approval of violence to me – I mean that was to be the finale of the show.
People’s concerns were clearly misplaced.
Very interesting topic, Donna. One of my favorite activities is wandering through costume museums. Sound Bend, Indiana, has a great museum with all sorts of fashions.
Yesterday, Boyd and I drove to Auburn, CA, and looked through the historical Auburn Courthouse, circa 1894; they have a little museum there and it was fascinating since I’m finishing my next book, a historical set around that courthouse.
Jo – I LOVE wandering through fashion museums. We’ve got some good ones here – especially at Kent State University and Ohio State University. The fashions at the beginning of the century are extremely different from those at the end – much like the fashions at the beginning of the twentith century went through all sorts of changes as well.
Which is why it annoys me when I pick up an historical romance and it just says the setting is in the 1800s but the fashions are from all over the century. Irritates the heck out of me.
I do have one problem with today’s fashions. I hate this no-nylons, bare legs phase. When I go to church all the younger women have bare legs and I get COLD by proximity!
Plus, wearing nylons makes me feel so old LOL.
I love the no nylons because it means I don’t have to find a pair without a run in them
. However shoes feel better with nylons and they do make legs look better. So I guess I straddle the fence on the nylon issue.
I’m sure Regency men thought it quite scandalous for a woman to have an opinion, let alone desire to express that opinion by voting.
I am thankful that we can vote today!
Kim – that’s so right!
I think the taboo is more about having the freedom of men than anything else. A lot of effort has gone into keeping women disadvantaged in movement and opportunity
Watched Madonna’s SuperBowl news conference and she’s promised ‘no wardrobe malfunctions’ — Not one of my favorite singers/divas..
Can watch Downton Abbey on PBS on my computer later… I married a football coach..
CateS – Oh dear – This is like a working holiday for him, isn’t it. I bet the game takes on a whole different dimension when watched with a football coach in the room.
I love Downton Abbey. Fingers crossed they decide to do a third series.
Donna, what a fun post. I love that wedding dress. Isn’t it exquisite? Actually, given that these women had a shift and a corset under the dress, I wonder if the usual slip was a flash of underwear a bit like us showing a bra strap rather than an actual nipple.
Anna – When the dress is cut as low as those shown, I’m thinking the corset would be cut similarly low as would be the slip. I can definitely imagine an accidental flash on occasion. Unless a lacy fichu was tucked in as well.
Been through the wardrobe wars for myself
and daughters. In jr/sr high, had to wear a
dress or skirt & blouse to school, no pants or
jeans. In sr high, with our drum & bugle corps
uniforms, we had to kneel on the floor to
make sure of the proper length, this was all
in the ’50s. Cut to the ’70s, in Kindergarten
daughter HAD to wear pants. If it was a new
styled pant suit, both pieces had to be of the
same fabric. When they were allowed to wear dresses, for PROPRIETY’S SAKE they had to be
sure to wear shorts too! Makes me glad the
girls are adults now and they are responsible
for their own & the granddaughters’ clothing
and today’s “taboos.”
Pat C.
Pat – Crazy isn’t it? My kids are long gone from high school but I think their school restrictions were no navels showing and no vulgarity on the Tshirts. TImes have sure changed from my days in high school.
So far, that’s holding steady Donna. In our school system it’s no halter tops or tube tops for girls, no t-shirts with foul language, death threat language or racial slurs for either sex. Oh, and no rebel flags, supremacist slogans (either way, so no black panthers, and no hitler shirts) There was controversy over a Mao shirt a couple of years ago. Grins.
The latest controversy is the tendency of gusy to wear pants two sizes to big and showing their undies. They’re trying to ban that. I hope they do as I have no desire to see ANYONE’s undies, male or female. Hahahah!
that should be “guys” of course, not gusy.
Jeanne – That (cough, cough) would be my son.
I keep hoping he’ll grow out of this stage. He’s 25 now. Granted he doesn’t wear those jeans to the point of threatening to fall off anymore, but they’re still low.
When I was in high school, girls had to wear dresses or skirts, no pants allowed. Now, it’s either anything goes, or they’ve gone to uniforms. Stockings were always expected when wearing a dress or skirt, now even in business, it’s considered acceptable to have bare legs. As for the Superbowl, is that some sort of sports game they’re airing on Television?
Barbara – I think my husband mentioned that his company introduced a prohibition of flip-flops as suitable footwear for business. I think someone complained about the slap of the shoe to the heel – but really – flip flops in the workplace? It’s a crazy world out there.
Barbara, The Super Bowl is the top two American
football teams playing each other to determine
the #1 professional football team for the season.
And yes, it is televised with celebrity (Madonna)
entertainment at halftime and special commer- cials filmed for this game.
Pat Cochran
There’s always those out there that are going to be shocked or tell others what is right or wrong. I guess you need some rules but I think the Puritans put a bad spin on everything lol.
Those Puritans sure had a lasting effect, didn’t they? I wonder why their restrictions stuck around for so long?
I think I remember reading that the characters in I Love Lucy weren’t allowed to use the word pregnant when Lucy was expecting.
Seriously? What did they say “she’s in the family way?”
You know I remember seeing the word “pregnant” on a magazine cover when I was little and not knowing what it meant. It was supposed to be hidden behind the same sort of cover that was used to hide the magazine covers of playboy and other gentlemen’s magazines. I peeked and wondered why this was forbidden – so I looked it up. Sometimes you have to wonder about who is protecting what from young eyes. (and why forbidden things covered are so darn tempting).
Donna, what a fun post! Wasn’t there a period somewhere around the Regency when “fast” women wet and wrung out their petticoats so they’d cling?
And of course, the shorter hemlines of the 1920s were considered scandalous.
Nancy – Yes – I believe that was late 1700s, early 1800s.
Seems like there’s some ridiculous thing that is scandalous in every time period. At least it keeps the gossip columnists employed.
For a while, drawstring pj pants seemed to be “in” for female students to wear to class. Who woulda thought?
Hi Donna! What gorgeous Regency dresses! Thank you for a fun walk through time with fashion. I enjoyed it enormously.
I always thought the stays beneath the gown would be enough to keep the girls firmly in place, and am so fascinated to hear that’s not necessarily the case! Sounds like those country dances must have left a few eyes popping! LOL
Christina – From one who has worn corsets – the support from below pushes them up to enhance the clevage, and reduces the downward bounce from movement – but certain movements can bouce you right out of the pocket, if the dress is too low. Shame they didn’t have double-sided tape back then.
Donna, that wedding is really pretty. As one who as an abundance of top-heaviness (thanks to Gram Carson, not), I can’t imagine wearing a Regency-styled dress….bounce when you walk, bounce when you dance, bounce in a carriage…
Not that this has anything to do with dresses, but a girl I knew in college bought an expensive sweater one Saturday and came back to the dorm and proceeded to take scissors and cut it into ribbons. It was her way of looking fashionable, so she said. ???
oops *has